Author Topic: #PrayforIstanbul  (Read 77845 times)

Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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#PrayforIstanbul
« on: 12 January 2016, 12:27:13 PM »
Why don't we see hashtags like #PrayforIstanbul, #PrayforBeirut? The western medias are too focused on what's happening in Europe and don't give a toss about terrorists attacks elsewhere.

There was a suicide bombing in Istanbul. Ten people died.

#PrayforIstanbul.

Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #1 on: 12 January 2016, 06:27:12 PM »
The media is not what you should gauge a moral compass on. The media has motives and talking points, and spreads ideas in a particular way to push for particular outcomes.

And while I don't spend any of my time praying like those suicide bombers likely did before they committed their religious crime, I do find this kind of shit all to common in that part of the world. It's disgusting, and thanks for letting me know about it, I didn't know before this.

#fuckreligion

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Offline luisc99

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #2 on: 12 January 2016, 06:43:10 PM »
Back in the Paris attacks a friend reminded me of the quote "Terrorism has no religion". That's something the western media doesn't really understand. I know people who've seen the news and take the actions of the few to represent the actions of countries. We need to be the ones who will grow up and change that view, and show that it is only a minority who does these things.

Then again, if you look up terrorist attacks in 2015 on Wikipedia then it's split into two pages due to the sheer number. There's been plenty that don't make it into the news...
« Last Edit: 12 January 2016, 06:49:04 PM by luisc99 »
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Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #3 on: 12 January 2016, 06:55:45 PM »
Back in the Paris attacks a friend reminded me of the quote "Terrorism has no religion". That's something the western media doesn't really understand. I know people who've seen the news and take the actions of the few to represent the actions of countries. We need to be the ones who will grow up and change that view, and show that it is only a minority who does these things.

Terrorism is very, very often rooted in religious dogma. The terrorism in Paris and Istanbul does have a religion, it's called Islam.
Fortunately it is a minority that commit these crimes, however very, very unfortunately, a massive MAJORITY of Islam's adherents support this kind of barbaric shit.  The only exception is in North America, where it's a minority of Muslims. In every other part of the world, like Europe, it's a majority. That's the very sad truth.

Like it or not, religion is at the core of this problem. It's unhelpful to water this fact down.


But you're very right. We need to be the ones who grow up and refuse to stand for this evil shit.

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Offline ChaosMushrooms

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #4 on: 13 January 2016, 12:06:48 PM »

Offline TheCatsMangler

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #5 on: 13 January 2016, 05:44:20 PM »
Christianity is the downfall of this world, and the centre of sin. Down with the Christians!! The red neck pikeys plan to take over. They are the cause of terrorism!! They made the big terrorist groups that kill people every day, E.G United States.

Offline OctoGamer

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #6 on: 13 January 2016, 09:12:22 PM »
wuts wrong with the united states

Offline gerrit70

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #7 on: 15 January 2016, 08:16:22 PM »
<a href="http://" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://</a>Livid I saw you made a Paris thing in Lakestone, maybe make more memorials to the other attacks?
Also not made to be offensive. Just a suggestion
« Last Edit: 16 January 2016, 08:20:57 PM by Airbongus Van Winkledorf »
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Offline Airbongo

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #8 on: 16 January 2016, 08:21:34 PM »
<a href="http://" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://</a>Livid I saw you made a Paris thing in Lakestone, maybe make more memorials to the other attacks?
Also not made to be offensive. Just a suggestion

Hi, I edited your post so the gif would work correctly.



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Offline NotEnder

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #9 on: 16 January 2016, 11:15:02 PM »
Hey. For some reason I decided to make a forums account.

Ako, please allow me to correct your misinterpretation of Muslims' intentions. It's not just Muslims in America (me being one) who are against the heinous crimes of various "Islamic" terrorists. I put the term "Islamic" in quotation marks due to the simple fact that Islam does not justify and/or support any of the actions of al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc.

The majority of Muslims as a WHOLE are against such terrorists' behaviors, and when I say Muslims, I mean true Muslims who adhere wholeheartedly to the faith and are not insane, unlike terrorist organizations. I know Muslims originally from all continents (excluding Australia, for I've never met an Australian) and they too are against said "Islamic" terrorists, not just because they live in North America, but because the original countries they came from too were against it, and I know people from all over the world. While I do understand that you may not be religious and have no intentions to contest what you decide to believe, one cannot justify these actions because of religion. Islam is simply a supposed excuse for these idiots who think they are doing these things for the sake of God. They're not. As far as real Muslims are concerned, they're not Muslims. They're not actual Muslims. Hell, "jihad" doesn't even mean "holy war." It means "internal struggle," and is basically the term used for striving to do what is morally and spiritually right.

And Livid, I do agree that the media is mostly the reason for a lot of this incorrect perception of Muslims. It's not right to simply say "Islamic terrorists" while neglecting to mention that true Muslims are completely against the horrors caused by terrorists. Terrorism, again, has no religion whatsoever.

Thank you for reading my first ever post on the forums. It is my hope that I can continue to contribute to both the server and the forums in any way possible, let it be about Minecraft or real-world issues, as a standard member on VC and, if the time ever comes and I am deemed appropriate for it, as someone much more than that.

Thank you. Please continue your prayers for Istanbul, my birth city and where several of my relatives are. I too have been dealt a personal blow by these attacks, though I am sure the actual victims and their families have just experienced something far worse than that.

#PrayForIstanbul

-Ender
« Last Edit: 17 January 2016, 01:25:40 AM by EnderEssence »





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Offline Airbongo

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #10 on: 17 January 2016, 03:25:21 AM »
Hey. For some reason I decided to make a forums account.

Ako, please allow me to correct your misinterpretation of Muslims' intentions. It's not just Muslims in America (me being one) who are against the heinous crimes of various "Islamic" terrorists. I put the term "Islamic" in quotation marks due to the simple fact that Islam does not justify and/or support any of the actions of al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc.

The majority of Muslims as a WHOLE are against such terrorists' behaviors, and when I say Muslims, I mean true Muslims who adhere wholeheartedly to the faith and are not insane, unlike terrorist organizations. I know Muslims originally from all continents (excluding Australia, for I've never met an Australian) and they too are against said "Islamic" terrorists, not just because they live in North America, but because the original countries they came from too were against it, and I know people from all over the world. While I do understand that you may not be religious and have no intentions to contest what you decide to believe, one cannot justify these actions because of religion. Islam is simply a supposed excuse for these idiots who think they are doing these things for the sake of God. They're not. As far as real Muslims are concerned, they're not Muslims. They're not actual Muslims. Hell, "jihad" doesn't even mean "holy war." It means "internal struggle," and is basically the term used for striving to do what is morally and spiritually right.

And Livid, I do agree that the media is mostly the reason for a lot of this incorrect perception of Muslims. It's not right to simply say "Islamic terrorists" while neglecting to mention that true Muslims are completely against the horrors caused by terrorists. Terrorism, again, has no religion whatsoever.

Thank you for reading my first ever post on the forums. It is my hope that I can continue to contribute to both the server and the forums in any way possible, let it be about Minecraft or real-world issues, as a standard member on VC and, if the time ever comes and I am deemed appropriate for it, as someone much more than that.

Thank you. Please continue your prayers for Istanbul, my birth city and where several of my relatives are. I too have been dealt a personal blow by these attacks, though I am sure the actual victims and their families have just experienced something far worse than that.

#PrayForIstanbul

-Ender
That was a very good reply, hopefully we can stimulate a nice discussion about the subject. Welcome to the forums!:D



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Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #11 on: 19 January 2016, 03:33:28 AM »
Hey. For some reason I decided to make a forums account.

Ako, please allow me to correct your misinterpretation of Muslims' intentions. It's not just Muslims in America (me being one) who are against the heinous crimes of various "Islamic" terrorists. I put the term "Islamic" in quotation marks due to the simple fact that Islam does not justify and/or support any of the actions of al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc.

The majority of Muslims as a WHOLE are against such terrorists' behaviors, and when I say Muslims, I mean true Muslims who adhere wholeheartedly to the faith and are not insane, unlike terrorist organizations. I know Muslims originally from all continents (excluding Australia, for I've never met an Australian) and they too are against said "Islamic" terrorists, not just because they live in North America, but because the original countries they came from too were against it, and I know people from all over the world. While I do understand that you may not be religious and have no intentions to contest what you decide to believe, one cannot justify these actions because of religion. Islam is simply a supposed excuse for these idiots who think they are doing these things for the sake of God. They're not. As far as real Muslims are concerned, they're not Muslims. They're not actual Muslims. Hell, "jihad" doesn't even mean "holy war." It means "internal struggle," and is basically the term used for striving to do what is morally and spiritually right.

And Livid, I do agree that the media is mostly the reason for a lot of this incorrect perception of Muslims. It's not right to simply say "Islamic terrorists" while neglecting to mention that true Muslims are completely against the horrors caused by terrorists. Terrorism, again, has no religion whatsoever.

Thank you for reading my first ever post on the forums. It is my hope that I can continue to contribute to both the server and the forums in any way possible, let it be about Minecraft or real-world issues, as a standard member on VC and, if the time ever comes and I am deemed appropriate for it, as someone much more than that.

Thank you. Please continue your prayers for Istanbul, my birth city and where several of my relatives are. I too have been dealt a personal blow by these attacks, though I am sure the actual victims and their families have just experienced something far worse than that.

#PrayForIstanbul

-Ender


Hey, welcome to the forums.

I don't think I have a misinterpretation of Muslims. If I do, then I'd rather correct it. I'm not intending to generalize Muslims or their intentions, I'm well aware there are a lot of people part of the faith, and that there are plenty of perfectly nice Muslim people who hate to see this stuff. And they, like you and Livid, rightly denounce this stuff.

But the fact is, there are Muslims who do use their religion and their holy books to help justify their actions. There are good actions, and there are also immoral ones. The unfortunate fact is there is a small noteworthy minority who commit some pretty damn serious religiously-inspired/justified crimes. And, as opinion polling shows, there's a substantial number of Muslims in certain countries who support some pretty damn serious crimes. There are certain issues where the majority of Muslims hold radical positions - the exception is that this not true in North America.


You and Livid rightly denounce this stuff - I just think you should go the extra step and denounce them for doing awful, violent, immoral, religiously-inspired acts. You can't say "these people aren't true Muslims" when they commit heinous crimes. They think they're Muslims, they say they're Muslims, they openly say they do what they do for religious reasons. They are Muslims. To say otherwise is fallacious (The No True Scotsman logical fallacy). And I think it's incredibly important for Muslims to call out other Muslims for doing horrible things in the name of their religion, rather than try to act like they aren't Muslims. Consider checking out why you should reconsider this argument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Here's a video of the 2013 Norway Peace Conference where the speaker is trying to show that the majority of Muslims aren't radical, but then goes ahead and gets the Muslim audience to prove that the vast majority of them hold radical views towards women, and punishment by stoning and death. Are they all real Muslims? They say they are.




And if you think I'm making up this "majority hold radical religious views in many countries" thing, I'm really not. This is a Pew poll, and it's just one example:




I'm glad most Muslims are now openly against ISIS/Daesh, and I'm glad you guys are against what happened in Istanbul. Please don't pretend this trend isn't a religious one, or isn't a Muslim one - It is. And I don't think my perception is at all misinterpreted or misguided, I try to be very objective and to actively correct my own prejudices where they may exist, and I hope I helped clear up some confusion.

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Offline NotEnder

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #12 on: 19 January 2016, 03:21:42 PM »
I've seen that Pew report too. While I'm not contesting the credibility of the survey itself, one could argue that most of the Muslim countries there have been influenced by terror groups some way or another.

No, I'm not saying that Nigerians aren't real Muslims, but rather, the influx of terrorist ideals as influenced them a bit more than others. The further away you get from the heartland of certain terrorist groups, the less people you see supporting sharia law, or at least terrorists' interpretation of it (let's just say they messed it up). Look at countries further away from terroristic origins (ex: Turkey, Azerbaijan). Notice a pattern?

And as for other countries in that list that happen to be a considerable distance away and still support "sharia law", (Egypt, Iraq) their leaders are corrupt and take pride in ruining their respective countries. Their mass propaganda of crap has unfortunately brainwashed many of their people (Hitler, anyone?). Either that or they say they support implementing it out of fear that the interviewer is affiliated with their government in some way (this might be the more realistic out of the two reasons why, but don't quote me on that.)

Anyways, just sayin'.
« Last Edit: 19 January 2016, 03:56:00 PM by EnderEssence »





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Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #13 on: 19 January 2016, 04:11:03 PM »
We should go around to every Norwegian person and ask if they denounce that insane man who shot up a camp. I mean, why not, people go around to every Muslim they know and ask if they denounce crimes committed by a few.

Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #14 on: 19 January 2016, 04:12:29 PM »
I've seen that Pew report too. While I'm not co testing the credibility of the survey itself, one could argue that most of the Muslim countries there have been influenced by terror groups some way or another.

No, I'm not saying that Nigerians aren't real Muslims, but rather, the influx of terrorist ideals as influenced them a bit more than others. The further away you get from the heartland of certain terrorist groups, the less people you see supporting sharia law, or at least terrorists' interpretation of it (let's just say they messed it up). Look at countries further away from terroristic origins (ex: Turkey, Azerbaijan). Notice a pattern?

And as for other countries in that list that happen to be a considerable distance away and still support "sharia law", (Egypt, Iraq) their leaders are corrupt and take pride in ruining their respective countries. Their mass propaganda of crap has unfortunately brainwashed many of their people (Hitler, anyone?). Either that or they say they support implementing it out of fear that the interviewer is affiliated with their government in some way (this might be the more realistic out of the two reasons why, but don't quote me on that.)

Anyways, just sayin'.


Pardon me, I don't quite understand. Turkey, Azerbaijan, Egypt, and Iraq are all extremely close in proximity to terrorist activities (with active terrorism taking place in all 4 of them, and with ISIS operating in at least 2 of them). You said Egypt and Iraq are a considerable distance away? I can only assume that you're confusing your geography. Here's a map:


They're all right there. I don't quite see the proximity/distance trend.



What about the video in Norway? That's nowhere near those other countries.

You're right about propaganda, you're right about corruption, but I still don't see the disconnect. These people are Muslims who hold radical religious positions and do bad things based on those positions.

The influx of terrorist ideals in those regions is rooted in Islam. They aren't shy about saying that.


Quote
The further away you get from the heartland of certain terrorist groups, the less people you see supporting sharia law
ISIS/ISIL mean Islamic State of Iraq and Syria/the Levant. Support for sharia in Iraq: 91%



Are these people or are they not Muslims?

Is their religion influencing/informing their radical views and actions?

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Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #15 on: 19 January 2016, 04:14:57 PM »
We should go around to every Norwegian person and ask if they denounce that insane man who shot up a camp. I mean, why not, people go around to every Muslim they know and ask if they denounce crimes committed by a few.

What point are you trying to get across with this?

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Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #16 on: 19 January 2016, 04:14:57 PM »
I found something hilarious on some Bible website when I was looking up Sharia law: ?  Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.

Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #17 on: 19 January 2016, 04:18:55 PM »
By the way, one fails to understand that Sharia Law, despite its name, is not strictly a political legislative body. Sharia Law contains many things for a Muslim to do to become more spiritual, such as clarification and rules on fasting, diet, hygiene, sex and more. A Muslim must understand that Sharia Law is not strictly a body for political governance but to a large extent for personal reasons so you can be as close to God as possible.

Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #18 on: 19 January 2016, 04:20:40 PM »
We should go around to every Norwegian person and ask if they denounce that insane man who shot up a camp. I mean, why not, people go around to every Muslim they know and ask if they denounce crimes committed by a few.

What point are you trying to get across with this?

I find that, over the world, whenever an attack by a Muslim occurs people just ask Muslims if they condemn it or not, like the attacker represents them. ISIS does not represent me but I refuse to comment on my condemnations of their actions are not. Why? They do not represent me and that should be a statement enough.

Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #19 on: 19 January 2016, 04:21:40 PM »
By the way, one fails to understand that Sharia Law, despite its name, is not strictly a political legislative body. Sharia Law contains many things for a Muslim to do to become more spiritual, such as clarification and rules on fasting, diet, hygiene, sex and more. A Muslim must understand that Sharia Law is not strictly a body for political governance but to a large extent for personal reasons so you can be as close to God as possible.

And yet majorities in several countries want it to be the law of the country.
Source: Pew.



I find that, over the world, whenever an attack by a Muslim occurs people just ask Muslims if they condemn it or not, like the attacker represents them. ISIS does not represent me but I refuse to comment on my condemnations of their actions are not. Why? They do not represent me and that should be a statement enough.
This seems like a reasonable thing to ask, especially considering so many Muslims hold radical views, as I keep stating.
Is there something wrong with asking people for their opinion? Isn't that a good thing?

There was never any question as to whether or not ISIS represents you. I already knew they don't.
« Last Edit: 19 January 2016, 04:26:12 PM by Akomine »

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Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #20 on: 19 January 2016, 04:24:43 PM »
By the way, one fails to understand that Sharia Law, despite its name, is not strictly a political legislative body. Sharia Law contains many things for a Muslim to do to become more spiritual, such as clarification and rules on fasting, diet, hygiene, sex and more. A Muslim must understand that Sharia Law is not strictly a body for political governance but to a large extent for personal reasons so you can be as close to God as possible.

And yet majorities in several countries want it to be the law of the country.
Source: Pew.

Well they should really understand that it is for the most part for personal reasons. That is why the Qur'an was created, to be a personal guide, not the legislative texts of a country.

Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #21 on: 19 January 2016, 04:28:39 PM »
By the way, one fails to understand that Sharia Law, despite its name, is not strictly a political legislative body. Sharia Law contains many things for a Muslim to do to become more spiritual, such as clarification and rules on fasting, diet, hygiene, sex and more. A Muslim must understand that Sharia Law is not strictly a body for political governance but to a large extent for personal reasons so you can be as close to God as possible.

And yet majorities in several countries want it to be the law of the country.
Source: Pew.

Well they should really understand that it is for the most part for personal reasons. That is why the Qur'an was created, to be a personal guide, not the legislative texts of a country.

I have no idea if you're right, but you should tell that to other Muslims who aren't secular as you seem to be.

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Offline Lividup64 (OP)

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #22 on: 19 January 2016, 04:31:26 PM »
By the way, one fails to understand that Sharia Law, despite its name, is not strictly a political legislative body. Sharia Law contains many things for a Muslim to do to become more spiritual, such as clarification and rules on fasting, diet, hygiene, sex and more. A Muslim must understand that Sharia Law is not strictly a body for political governance but to a large extent for personal reasons so you can be as close to God as possible.

And yet majorities in several countries want it to be the law of the country.
Source: Pew.



I find that, over the world, whenever an attack by a Muslim occurs people just ask Muslims if they condemn it or not, like the attacker represents them. ISIS does not represent me but I refuse to comment on my condemnations of their actions are not. Why? They do not represent me and that should be a statement enough.
This seems like a reasonable thing to ask, especially considering so many Muslims hold radical views, as I keep stating.
Is there something wrong with asking people for their opinion? Isn't that a good thing?

There was never any question as to whether or not ISIS represents you. I already knew they don't.

Wasn't talking about you specifically, but normally people tend to ask me and others whether I condemn them and their actions or not. I haven't seen anyone asking all Jews if the condemn Israel. it's that generalisation some people have in the back of their heads which makes them ask.

Offline Akomine

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #23 on: 19 January 2016, 04:34:18 PM »
Wasn't talking about you specifically, but normally people tend to ask me and others whether I condemn them and their actions or not. I haven't seen anyone asking all Jews if the condemn Israel. it's that generalisation some people have in the back of their heads which makes them ask.

Dude, people ask Jews that sort of question all the time.

I still don't get what's wrong with asking. If they have a generalization and are asking you to clarify your position, then you are helping to educate them. Why would you refuse? Share your ideas.

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Offline NotEnder

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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #24 on: 19 January 2016, 05:07:13 PM »
I didn't say Egypt and Iraq were a considerable distance away. Sorry for any confusion.

Sure, terrorists may claim they're Muslims, and Fox News can relish that all they want, but they're considered pagans by those who refuse to commit such heinous actions (what I'm referring to as "real Muslims"). Islam is not the root of these terrorists' ideals. Nothing in Islam says you can crash into two twin towers in NYC, behead Christians at will, or go suicide bomb terrorists. The media seems to think otherwise, and if they use the term "Islamic terrorists" one more time, I'm probably going to implode. Livid can read my obituary at my funeral along with the remains of my severed body.

What drives these terrorists to do such things is the exact same thing that drives terrorist groups "representing" other religions. There are retarded rednecks out there who think al-Qaeda represents Islam. Does that mean the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church represent Christianity? Retards' responses: "Nooooooo that's DIFFEREEEEENT."

"Islamic" terrorists' motives are not rooted in Islam, nor has Islam ever supported such actions. These are corrupt individuals driven by the exact same thing that drives other criminals to do the same (power-hungriness, money lust, bloodlust, etc.) <---Islam does not advocate any of these. Let the media say what they want. They're not considered actual Muslims by those who adhere to the faith.

Need anything more?





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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #25 on: 19 January 2016, 06:14:40 PM »
I didn't say Egypt and Iraq were a considerable distance away. Sorry for any confusion.

 Nothing in Islam says you can crash into two twin towers in NYC, behead Christians at will, or go suicide bomb terrorists.
Except that it does and terrorists use that to justify their actions. Ever read the Quran?

Also, Livid, I don't see how Sharia can be a path of enlightenment to get closer to god because it is a fucked up vile system. Let's not pretend it only seeks " clarification and rules on fasting, diet, hygiene, sex and more". It seeks to control people's lives, make women pretty much worthless (I really hope you do not support that) and it is not fit for our modern times. Do you really want to live in a country where people get stoned to death? A place that allows "honour killings", such as a husband killing/mutilating his wife for adultery. Also the amount of Muslims in developed countries (like the UK) that support the implementation of Sharia nationwide is fucked up (not that it's ever gonna happen). Even the fact that it has been allowed in some districts is disgusting to me.

Some Sharia law shit




luuuul sry but pic was funny.
« Last Edit: 19 January 2016, 06:34:37 PM by Airbongus Van Winkledorf »



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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #26 on: 19 January 2016, 06:35:58 PM »
I didn't say Egypt and Iraq were a considerable distance away. Sorry for any confusion.

 Nothing in Islam says you can crash into two twin towers in NYC, behead Christians at will, or go suicide bomb terrorists.
Except that it does and terrorists use that to justify their actions. Ever read the Quran?

Of course I've read the Quran.

Terrorists' actions are not religiously sanctioned. For God's sake, take a break from Fox News. If you could find a verse from the Quran that supposedly supports suicide bombing, plane hijacking, and other terroristic things, I'll be happy to interpret the verse you think means that Islam supports killing "infidels". Chances are, that's gonna happen. :)

Can I get a medal for using quote references for the first time? Yuuuuuuuuus.





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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #27 on: 19 January 2016, 06:40:30 PM »
I didn't say Egypt and Iraq were a considerable distance away. Sorry for any confusion.

 Nothing in Islam says you can crash into two twin towers in NYC, behead Christians at will, or go suicide bomb terrorists.
Except that it does and terrorists use that to justify their actions. Ever read the Quran?

Of course I've read the Quran.

Terrorists' actions are not religiously sanctioned. For God's sake, take a break from Fox News. If you could find a verse from the Quran that supposedly supports suicide bombing, plane hijacking, and other terroristic things, I'll be happy to interpret the verse you think means that Islam supports killing "infidels". Chances are, that's gonna happen. :)

Can I get a medal for using quote references for the first time? Yuuuuuuuuus.
Seriously? "stop watching fox news". Imma find those verses and post them today, I am not lying. I will also post other fucked up verses. Also, please don't nitpick my reply and also target my other points about Sharia law. Thank you.



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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #28 on: 19 January 2016, 06:48:16 PM »
Also, the Quran is filled with war mongering verses, I can't wait to post them fuckers :D



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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #29 on: 19 January 2016, 07:41:43 PM »
Also, the Quran is filled with war mongering verses, I can't wait to post them fuckers :D

Two words:
« Last Edit: 19 January 2016, 07:44:08 PM by EnderEssence »





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Re: #PrayforIstanbul
« Reply #30 on: 19 January 2016, 08:06:28 PM »
Me and Ako compiled a list:

Islamic Warmongering - Justifications for Violence and Killing
1.

Quran 2:191-193 - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran)
The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

2.
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

3.
Quran 2:193 - ?And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.?
Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. But if there are any wrong-doers around after you've killed off all the disbelievers, persecutors and aggressors, then you'll have to kill them too.

4.
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

5.
Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

6.
Quran 4:89 - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Kill non-believers. Don?t be their friends.

7.
Quran 4:95 - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "
This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).

8.
Quran 8:12 - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

9.
Quran 8:67 - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."
Lol? warmongering.

10.
Quran 9:5 - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

11.
Quran 9:29 - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

12.
Quran 9:38-39 - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."
This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

13.
Quran 9:123 - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Yet another call to arms.


Sources:
- http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/
- http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
- Not Fox News



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